Downward Spiral of Shame

So, if you go all the way back to the language problem and say, yeah, it's causing a reading problem, and the reading problem is causing a language problem, and the language problem is causing a behavior problem, and the fact that this kid can't read and other people around him can read much better is eroding his self-esteem and making him feel pretty worthless. - Dr Mel Levine (COTC Interview)


See also: Shame Videos and Emotion and Cognition Video

See also: Shame (index of all shame topics)

Return to Index of Topics  -  Notes: 1) This page is a work in progress and does not yet comprehensively cover its topic or include all the COTC and web resources its topic deserves.  2) Bold is used to emphasize our [COTC] sense of importance and does not necessarily reflect gestures or tones of emphasis in the original source. This color indicates COTC edits for brevity or flow. See referenced original for exact quotes.

Share this:          

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton: In one part of the series we call it the ĎDownward Spiral of Shameí.

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst: Yes.

David Boulton: The moment that somebody starts to feel uncomfortable, thereís this split in the processing bandwidth necessary to do the task. And the more that they canít do the task the more that they feel uncomfortable and the more they feel uncomfortable the less they can do the task and down and down and down.

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst: Sure. And at the code level, the task is one that requires practice, thereís no short cut for it, and so another consequence of this is that children who are struggling donít read; theyíll read when theyíre required to read, when someoneís looking over their shoulder, but they will not read for pleasure. And there end up being vast differences in the exposure to the written language that are a function of underlying skills. The underlying skill effects motivation and the motivation effects reading for pleasure. Reading for pleasure is a source of the information that prepares you to deal with the next level of reading. So it is a cycle of failure or success that feeds on itself.

David Boulton: We have the ĎDownward Spiral of Shameí and the ĎMatthew Effectí.

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst: Exactly so. And reading is actually unusual in that respect. Statistically we tend to find in other areas of development something called regression to the mean. And that means that children who score the lowest on whatever assessment is being given tend to score higher next time. Likewise, at the upper end you find some regression towards average performance among those children who scored extraordinarily well. So you get kind of an ad mixture over time. With reading itís very different, the paths are diverging. And thatís why itís so important from an education perspective to identify the problems early and a preventive approach rather than the approach that depends on the occurrence of failure and the attempt to remediate that failure.

David Boulton: Too late.

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst: Well, itís not too late, but itís extraordinarily difficult. Itís certainly expensive.

David Boulton: Itís too late in the sense that weíve passed the point of optimal intervention.

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst: Thatís right.

David Boulton: Not that itís too late in a dooming sense.  

Grover (Russ) Whitehurst, Ex-Director (2002-08), Institute of Education Sciences, U.S. Department of Education. Source: COTC Interview:

Downward Spiral of Shame 

David Boulton: One of the things that weíre very concerned with is the role of affect in all of this from a point of view of interest and attention, but also on the downside, what we call the 'downward spiral of shame.'  What happens when the children start to feel self-conscious about readingÖ

Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams: Oh, yeah! And that happens very quickly.

David Boulton: It implies a dissipation of processing resources, regardless of the emotional things that we say about it.

Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams: Forget the sublime explanations, people don't like to do what they don't do well. And kids are extreme human beings, you know? People like to do what they do well, and especially if it's in front of other people.

David Boulton: But there's no escape from reading.

Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams: Yes, I shouldn't say people like to do what they do well ó that's not always true. But they really don't like to do what they don't do well.

David Boulton: We are masterful shame escape artists. We learn that very early, and all of us do it.

Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams: I remember when my firstborn came home from first grade one day and he said, "No, Mom, you don't get it, because see, the girls like to read and write, but the boys don't. The boys like to do math, but the girls don't." And I thought, ĎOh, good, there's two things I wasn't really hoping you'd ever learn in the first semester of first grade.í

He read fine. It was just that they decided collectively the difference between girls and boys. He's twenty now, so this was in the peak of whole language and the girls were writing books and illustrating them and binding them with yarn and stickers and all that stuff. Iím sure that the boys just said, ĎHmm, can't compete in this arena and not sure I want to. I'm going over here with the trucks.í

David Boulton: Which means, like you said earlier, ĎI'm going to go where I can feel good about what I'm doing and Iím going to move away from the place that makes me feel bad about myself.í

Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams: Right, and we can call them girls and us boys, and it works.

David Boulton: Whatís generally animating the Children of the Code Project is our sense that a significant number of our children are confused. They're drowning in ambiguity overwhelm, and they feel like there's something wrong with them because of it.

Marilyn Jager Adams, Chief Scientist of Soliloquy Learning, Inc., Author of Beginning to Read: Thinking and Learning About Print. Source: COTC Interview -

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton:  I use a term, which Iíll share more with you later, that we call the Downward Spiral of Shame that connects the affect system with the cognitive system. What happens when they start to become averse to the feeling of all of this and the downward spiral of diminishing available cognitive resources because of the dissipation of their affects.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Yes! Well said. Well said because if you are allocating so much time to shame, if youíre so concerned that the child next to you has got a thick book and you really canít read a thick book or a chapter book yet, you can only read one of these baby books, then generally, and itís highly adaptive I think, is that youíll get a thick book and because of our social comparison you will pretend that you are reading that book to keep up with your peers. But the result of that is that you donít get the practice and the shame prevents you from engaging even more.  

David Boulton:  And what you are practicing is a self deception, self and other deception, and what youíre learning is that youíre mind doesnít work that well and that thereís something wrong with you.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Yes. Exactly.

David Boulton:  To some degree a great deal of our children are learning to be ashamed of their mind because of this whole reading thing.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: And you know it happens so early. Thatís the crime. It just happens, you can see it in mid-first grade. Little six and seven year olds are already feeling that 'Iím not a good reader'. Well to me thatís an indictment on our educational system that we havenít protected them enough and weíve compared them to each other so much, so quickly that many children donít even have an opportunity or a chance to get into the cycle. And so we have to do a far better job of not making these differences between our children so visible that they enter into this cycle prematurely. And there are ways to mediate that.

David Boulton:  Right, we can also contextualize this; some people are tall, some people are short, and no animal on the planet ever read before. Humans have only been doing it for a little while, everybody struggles, itís not a problem that youíre struggling. We can create a different kind of buffer space for the emotional processes that are concurring with the cognitive processes during this struggle.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Yes. Thatís right.

David Boulton:  And weíve got to do that. Thatís what Children of the Code is about, what weíre doing here.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: And itís not to say that weíre going to, what some philosophies have done and what some teaching practices have, which is to make everyone feel good and youíre going to be fine and you can learn to read. Weíre actually going to provide the instruction but at the same time create it in an environment that doesnít allow for that high level of social comparison.

David Boulton:  We are not talking about an artificial self esteem boost and compensation. Weíre talking about being successful at the task by reducing the emotional negative feedback loop thatís concurring with the cognitive struggle.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Right. Yes. Exactly.

David Boulton:  One of the things thatís implicit in the Matthew Effect, that you co-wrote about, is that how quickly children take to this, how quickly it catches for them and they get up into reading, so that theyíre brain isnít busy just doing the processing and theyíre free to go on and appreciate what theyíre reading and enjoy it enough to continue to have the affect interest excitement enjoyment lifting them into itÖ

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Uh-huh.

David Boulton:  That if that doesnít happen they wonít learn to process efficiently enough to read well enough to progress in the development of comprehension and fluency.   Itís almost kind of like launching a spaceship into orbit. Thereís this narrow little window that if they donít get through itÖ

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Thatís a great analogy. Yes.

David Boulton:  If theyíre too late getting into it then the whole thing starts to spiral negatively and starts working against theyíre developing ability to read it and it requires more and more and more from them to break through.

Dr. Anne Cunningham: Yes. Getting an airplane off the ground is an excellent analogy for what we have to do in the beginning stages of reading acquisition. And it does require an inordinate effort and focus on helping children to break the code and understanding these letter sound patterns and fragmenting and putting them together rapidly so those words become automatized.

In our study what we found was that children who made this break through, who broke the code early on in first grade, not only became better readers in high school, which is what weíd predict, but they engaged in print more. So one of the phenomenal findings of this particular study was that ten years later we could see that those children who broke the code early on began this Matthew Effect, this cycle of engaging in print and because they engaged and were successful in it they enjoyed it and because they enjoyed it they had positive affect and so presumably they practice it more and more. Because they practice it more and more their vocabulary grew, their level of verbal intelligence increased and so when they came upon some complex ideas or complex words, vocabulary items they may not have known, they had the cognitive space to think about, well what does that word mean and then attach it to a similar word so that they can then build their lexicon in a way that allows them to progress through out time.

And so not only do we see that theyíre better readers, but that they engage in it more. And thatís what we want to promote because what we see in the Matthew Effects is everyone benefits. So that even the relatively poor reader, the child or student whose comprehension is not as good as the student sitting next to them can still grow and develop in their reading ability, but also their verbal intelligence just by staying with it and just by engaging in print on a daily basis.   

Anne Cunningham, Director of the Joint Doctoral Program in Special Education with the Graduate School of Education at the University of California-Berkeley. Source: COTC Interview -

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton:  Thatís great. This is what weíve been calling the downward spiral that happens in reading, a variation on your compass. The more shame that theyíre experiencing in the overall learning to read process, the more that this is going on, the more that itís interrupting the possibility of a good experience of reading, the more that itís triggering shame, the more that this thing starts to work against itself.

Dr. Donald Nathanson: ... as you go from a momentary, a scene of shame to the assembly of multiple scenes of shame occurring during the process of reading, then you have a buildup in the individual that we call script formation. Itís no longer a matter of just the affect shame pulling us with a new spotlight to what we canít understand. Itís more evidence that we are poor understanders, that we are poor readers. (One of the things that can happen a great many times as we start to read and experience this painful shame.)

If a great many times that weíre reading the ambiguity triggers a moment of shame and we begin to associate reading with the pain of shame, then wouldnít we be stupid to keep reading? What happens is that the child says I canít read or I donít want to do this or you canít make me do this or reacts in a number of ways that frustrate the intent of the teacher.

This business of being unable to decipher whatís on the printed page has huge consequences for a childís self esteem. That is the childís general concept of who he or she is has huge consequences for how we see ourselves relative to our peers and forces us to defend against this bad feeling in a number of ways that I call the COMPASS of SHAME. 

Donald L. Nathanson. M.D., Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at Jefferson Medical College, and founding Executive Director of the Silvan S. Tomkins Institute. Source: COTC Interview -

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton: One of the most powerful concepts in the emerging emotional science of Ďaffectsí, is called the ďCompass of Shame.Ē Or, what weíve called in this series relative to reading, the Downward Spiral of Shame. And basically what it points to is that children, like all of us, tend to move away from what brings about shame. Moving away from print is almost second order to moving away from feeling shameÖ.

Dr. Reid Lyon: Right.

David Boulton:  Which is associated with trying to process this code.

Dr. Reid Lyon: Absolutely. The most visible thing our kids do throughout their early years is read. Reading is the most frequent and visible behavior visible to peers as kids enter school.

David Boulton:  Visible because thereís a structure to it where we can see them struggling.

Dr. Reid Lyon: Yes, absolutely. Typically, from first through third grades there is a lot of oral reading, and there are interactions where the kids are expected to read out loud, orally or in round robin.  When kids are hesitant, disfluent, inaccurate, slow and labored in reading, that is very visible to their peers and remember the peers, the other kids, again look at reading as a proxy for intelligence. It doesnít matter if this kid is already a genius and can do algebra in the second grade, reading produces particular perceptions. Better said, lousy reading produces a perception of stupidity and dumbness to peers and clearly to the youngster who is struggling. That is the shame. There are very visible differences between kids who are doing well with print and youngsters who are struggling with print.  They feel like theyíre failures; they tell us that.   (More "shame stories")

One of the things that is both great but also sad, is that we have had the opportunity in my job working with all of our scientists at all of our sites to follow kids from before they enter school until, in many cases, theyíre now twenty-three. And what is wonderful about that is we can walk through life with folks who are going to become very good readers. Sadly, we also walk through life with kids, adolescents and then adults who never learn how to read. And sadly, when we talk with these kids, adolescents and adults whoíve had a tough time with the shame of not learning to read, we find it is further exacerbated by the fact that they canít compete occupationally and vocationally; they donít do well in school, clearly the adolescents show us a level of pain that this society doesnít even see. Most of society takes this for granted, but all of this begins to build up together and keep kids further behind. 

G. Reid Lyon, Past- Chief of the Child Development and Behavior Branch of the National Institute of Child Health & Human Development, National Institutes of Health, Current senior vice president for research and evaluation with Best Associates. Source: COTC Interview -

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton: All of these dimensions are critical. We're looking at the family context, the social context, very particularly at the emotional affective context as well as the cognitive processing challenge.

Dr. Sally Shaywitz: That's at the very -- that's at the heart.

David Boulton: Yes.

Dr. Sally Shaywitz: That's the heart and soul of it. Because you can teach a person to read, and you can do all the things, but if they've had that hurt and that pain and that blow to their self-esteem, that's the most difficult. We have no medicine for that.

David Boulton: Yes. And it's not just a bad feeling they're having; it's fundamentally processing-level debilitating, draining of the efficiency that's necessary to process the thing that could make them feel better. It works in a downward spiral.

Dr. Sally Shaywitz: That's right.     

Sally Shaywitz, Pediatric Neuroscience, Yale University, Author of Overcoming Dyslexia. Source: COTC Interview -

Downward Spiral of Shame

David Boulton: One of the things weíre interested in that connects here is shame. In particular, whatís happening, not just at the level where we say, 'I feel ashamed of myself,' but before that, preconsciously before that. In the admix of affect thatís powering and directing cognition when a child starts to go into shame, whatís happening to their cognitive processing bandwidth? Our sense is thereís this downward spiral thatís starting to kick in as the child starts to feel shame and the shame itself starts to become more and more occupying of attention and Ö

Dr. Michael Merzenich: Right.

David Boulton: Diminishing the cognitive bandwidth available for processing what theyíre trying to do.

Dr. Michael Merzenich: Itís a great point, and itís a wonderful thing to study. To some extent it is being studied but itís a wonderful thing to try to develop a deeper understanding of. Let me just say that there is this sort of intuition that all of the change that occurs in these learning contexts is positive. That if I add emotion I learn better, right? Not right, thatís not correct.  

Let me cite a simple example. If I learn under conditions of incredibly high stress, Iím extremely efficient, immediately reactive to the situation at hand, but Iím not learning worth a darn. Obviously, if I go into a period of depression and I come out of it, I canít remember a darn thing that happened.

In an experiment, if I put an electrode in the brain of a rat or a mouse and I stimulate it each time it has an experience, a particular form of experience, so as to create a condition that would be just like very powerful activation of the brain systems that contribute to depression, what happens is that I generate an incredibly big positive exaggeration of that stimulus. It grows in the brain like a monster and everything else is degraded. So here Iím growing something that you could say is like a great fear or a great obsession, and its power in the brain is growing and growing. Everything else is degraded. So there is a negative side, a dark side to whatís happening as well. So neuromodulatory systems are not just contributing positive change. 

Iíll give you another simple example. It was known since Pavlov, that if I follow a stimulus with a reward, first the bell then the meat, the dog salivates. If I ring the bell and the dog salivates, thatís called classical, or Pavlovian conditioning. Well, letís flip it around. Letís give the meat then the bell. What happens? The answer is a peculiar form of unlearning. What happens is that now, if I flip them around, and now I have the bell and then the meat, the dog canít learn the relationship. I have a negative effect that is occurring. 

When I look in the brain of a rat that has the same experience, I see a positive change occur when the bell precedes the meat, signaled by the release of this powerful neuromodulator. When I reverse them I see exactly the opposite. The ability of the bell to excite the brain is erased. I actually see a negative plastic consequence. So we think of this as being positive. Itís not all positive Ė we think of learning as positive, but itís not all positive. 

Another way to think about it is learning is selective. Itís not just that you learn everything all the time - itís selective. Itís a selective process. Once a brain scientist, Herbert Jaspers, who is a great scientist at the Research Institute in McGill in Montreal, (I might say he told me this when he was about 90 years old) said, "Never forget that when youíre trying to get across town, itís not just a matter of what bus you get on, itís all those busses that go by that you donít get on."  He said itís being able to sort out whatís important in a complex array of things that are happening and arriving in your brain that you have to make distinctions about. The brain processes that govern the development of our behaviors are selective. Some things they operate on positively, some things theyíre suppressing and theyíre operating on negatively. 

Michael Merzenich, Chair of Otolaryngology at the Keck Center for Integrative Neurosciences at the University of California at San Francisco. He is a scientist and educator, and found of Scientific Learning Corporation and Posit Science Corporation. Source: COTC Interview -

Share this:          

There is no substitute for your first-person learning.

SIGN UP HERE to receive general updates about our project or news of future interview releases 

Note about interviews: Participation in a Children of the Code interview does not constitute or imply an endorsement of the Children of the Code project or documentary by the interviewee. Conversely, including an interview does not constitute or imply an endorsement of the views, organizations, books or products of the interviewee, other than as explicitly stated, by the Children of the Code Project and documentary.  

For more information about
Children of the Code events
please click here
or call:

Dr. Grover (Russ) Whitehurst  Director, Institute of Education Sciences, Assistant Secretary of Education, U.S. Department of Education
Dr. Jack Shonkoff Chair, The National Scientific Council on the Developing Child; Co-Editor: From Neurons to Neighborhoods
Dr. Edward Kame'enui Commissioner for Special Education Research, U.S. Department of Education; Director, IDEA, University  of Oregon
Dr. G. Reid Lyon  Past Director, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH)
Dr. Keith Stanovich  Canadian Chair of Cognitive Science, University of Toronto
Dr. Mel Levine Co-Chair and Co-Founder, All Kinds of Minds; Author: A Mind at a Time, The Myth of Laziness & Ready or Not Here Life Comes
Dr. Alex Granzin  School District Psychologist, Past President, Oregon School Psychologists Association 
Dr. James J. Heckman Nobel Laureate, Economic Sciences 2000; Lead Author: The Productivity Argument for Investing in Young Children
Dr. Timothy Shanahan President (2006) International Reading Association, Chair National Early Literacy Panel, Member National Reading Panel
Nancy Hennessy  President, 2003-2005, International Dyslexia Association
Dr. Marilyn Jager Adams Senior ScientistSoliloquy Learning, Author: Beginning to Read: Thinking and Learning About Print
Dr. Michael Merzenich Chair of Otolaryngology, Integrative Neurosciences, UCSF;  Member National Academy of Sciences
Dr. Maryanne Wolf Director, Center for Reading & Language Research; Professor of Child Development, Tufts University
Dr. Todd Risley  Emeritus Professor of Psychology, University of Alaska, Co-author: Meaningful Differences
Dr. Sally Shaywitz  Neuroscientist, Department of Pediatrics, Yale University, Author: Overcoming Dyslexia
Dr. Louisa Moats  Director, Professional Development and Research Initiatives, Sopris West Educational Services
Dr. Zvia Breznitz Professor, Neuropsychology of Reading & Dyslexia, University of Haifa, Israel 
Rick Lavoie Learning Disabilities Specialist, Creator: How Difficult Can This Be?: The F.A.T. City Workshop & Last One Picked, First One Picked On
Dr.Charles Perfetti Professor, Psychology & Linguistics; Senior Scientist and Associate Director, Learning R&D Center, U. of Pittsburgh, PA
Arthur J. Rolnick Senior V.P. & Dir. of Research,  Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis;  Co- Author: The Economics of Early Childhood Development  
Dr. Richard Venezky  Professor, Educational Studies, Computer and  Information Sciences, and Linguistics, University of Delaware
Dr. Keith Rayner  Distinguished  Professor, University of Massachusetts, Author: Eye Movements in Reading and Information Processing
Dr. Paula Tallal  Professor of Neuroscience, Co-Director of the Center for Molecular and Behavioral Neuroscience, Rutgers University
Dr.John Searle  Mills Professor of the Philosophy of Mind and Language, University of California-Berkeley, Author: Mind, A Brief Introduction
Dr.Mark T. Greenberg Director, Prevention Research Center, Penn State Dept. of Human Development & Family Studies; CASEL Leadership Team
Dr. Terrence Deacon  Professor of Biological Anthropology and Linguistics at University of California- Berkeley
Chris Doherty  Ex-Program Director, National Reading First Program, U.S. Department of Education
Dr. Erik Hanushek Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University

Dr. Marketa Caravolas Director, Bangor Dyslexia Unit, Bangor University, Author: International Report on Literacy Research
Dr. Christof Koch Professor of Computation and Neural Systems,  Caltech - Author: The Quest for Consciousness: A Neurobiological Approach
Dr. Guy Deutscher Professor of Languages and Cultures of Ancient Mesopotamia, Holland; Author: Unfolding Language
Robert Wedgeworth  President, ProLiteracy, World's Largest Literacy Organization
Dr. Peter Leone  Director, National Center on Education, Disability and Juvenile Justice
Dr. Thomas Cable  Professor of English, University of Texas at Austin, Co-author: A History of the English Language
Dr. David Abram Cultural Ecologist and Philosopher; Author: The Spell of the Sensuous
Pat Lindamood and Nanci Bell  Principal Scientists, Founders, Lindamood-Bell Learning Processes
Dr. Anne Cunningham  Director, Joint Doctoral Program in Special Education, Graduate School of Education at University of California-Berkeley
Dr. Donald L. Nathanson  Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Human Behavior at Jefferson Medical College, Director of the Silvan S. Tomkins Institute 
Dr.Johanna Drucker  Chair of Media Studies, University of Virginia, Author: The Alphabetic Labyrinth
John H. Fisher  Medievalist, Leading authority on the development of the written English language, Author: The Emergence of Standard English
Dr. Malcolm Richardson   Chair, Dept. of English, Louisiana State University; Research: The Textual Awakening of the English Middle Classes  
James Wendorf  Executive Director, National Center for Learning Disabilities
Leonard Shlain Physician; Best-Selling Author: The Alphabet vs. The Goddess
Robert Sweet  Co-Founder, National Right to Read Foundation


HELP US: If you appreciate this interview and the work of the Children of the Code project please take a few minutes to share your thoughts with us. Your comments and feedback not only help us learn to better serve you, they help us get the support we need to continue the project.  Click here to read what others are saying about the Children of the Code Project.

SIGN UP HERE to receive general updates about our project or news of future interview releases 

The Children of the Code is a Social Education Project and a Public Television Series intended to catalyze and resource a social-educational transformation in how we think about and, ultimately, teach reading. The Children of the Code is an entertaining educational journey into the challenges our children's brains face when learning to read. The series weaves together archeology, history, linguistics, developmental neuroscience, cognitive science, psychology, information theory, reading theory, learning theory, and the personal and social dimensions of illiteracy. 




Copyright statement:  Copyright (c) 2014, Learning Stewards, A 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Organization, All Rights Reserved. Permission to use, copy, and distribute these materials for not-for-profit educational purposes, without fee and without a signed licensing agreement, is hereby granted, provided that "Children of the Code -"  (with a functioning hyperlink when online) be cited as the source and appear in all excerpts, copies, and distributions.  Thank you. (back to top)